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Author Topic: What other boards are saying about Hyosung.  (Read 3305 times)

skadamo

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What other boards are saying about Hyosung.
« on: June 19, 2005, 11:08:21 PM »

Its kinda cool to see other boards linking to korider in the admin panel.  Here is a discussion board korider turned up on.  Interesting discussion on an sv1000 web site...

http://www.sv1000.zyns.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13700&highlight=hyosung
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ride_naked

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What other boards are saying about Hyosung.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2005, 03:18:41 AM »

Another guy had a write-up of the 250.
http://www.sportbikes.ws/showthread.php?t=58809
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skadamo

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What other boards are saying about Hyosung.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2005, 01:26:55 AM »

That is a great comparison!  thanks for posting it.
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cdfisher

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What other boards are saying about Hyosung.
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 07:33:49 PM »

motorcycle.com (this is an on-line subscription magazine) compared a
Suzuki 650S to a Hyosung GT650 and the results were interesting. I
can't say I agreed with all of the conclusions on the article, but
it's a free press, and one man's empirical opinion (even if he was
mistaken on a few points). For the Korean's first foray into the US
market, it's as good an review as they will get until some changes
are made to the bike. But there are some judgements that are highly
subjective I would like to comment on.

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I have years of experience
in aerospace with enough of it in materials composition and build
quality to make some educated judgments of my own. We are also a
Hyosung dealer, we sell MZ's (a High Quality German Machine) and
KYMCO's, the next known name in ATV's here in the states. I read
almost every US Bike and ATV Magazine, and a few foreign ones as
well. In other words, this ain't my first rodeo folks...

I was impressed with Mr. Gabriel Ets-Hokin, the author of the
article, and I understand his concern about his journalistic
integrity. In preparing for the assignment, he had reviewed the many
articles on the http://www.hyosungmotors.com.au site, and was
determined not to write a puff piece. I participated in the test by
observing and was surprised when I read some of his impressions.
However, he had expressed a love for the Suzuki, as he had owned one
in the past. In my opinion, it's possible he let his previous
ownership and racing experience override his objectivity in some
areas of the article. With that said, here are my issues with the
article.

**The component quality of was a little poorer than I expected. The
plastic is that brittle, older-style ABS, and the paint has a fair
amount of orange peel.
-- The plastic is stiffer because it is thicker, but certainly not
the Chinese style ABS he is referring to. It compares with a used
2003 GSXR sitting on the showroom floor and does not have the sharp
edges associated with the plastic of that ilk. The orange peel he
refers to does exist in a couple areas, and Hyosung should improve
the quality control in this area.

**The instrument panel dimly lights up with LCD instrumentation that
looks like it was lifted from a 1987 Cadillac.
-- Try LED Gabe… If I knew what a 1987 Cadillac dash looked like, I
could comment further. The Green LED's are a little dim in bright
sunlight, but readable, and could use an upgrade to an LCD display
like the Suzuki's. The display has engine temperature and is
attractive to most people I have shown the bike to.

**The motor fires up quickly and easily, with a raspy sound and
noticeable vibration.
-- The bike doesn't have the feeling of isolation between the motor
and the frame that an SV has, but under idle, I would hardly call it
a vibration. The sound is harsher than an SV, and I disagree with
the ear of the beholder, this motor sounds strong.

**The GT has a long reach to the bars, which puts an ache in your
lower back after 20 minutes…
-- Gabe forgot to mention he is 5'8" and has short arms and legs.
I'm 48 years old, am 5'10' and my gut rests snugly against the tank,
but not uncomfortably, and I have never had my lower back hurt as of
yet. The SV under test had HELI bars, so there was no direct
comparison for this functionality.

**The motor is buzzy above 6,000 rpm, but it is geared fairly tall
and cruising at 80 (indicated- I think there's an 8-12% speedometer
error) is fairly comfortable.
-- As I said, there is more of a feel for what the motor is doing and
as for the spedo error, we haven't measured this yet, but we use the
KC Motorcycle Cops Radar when we want to be sure (they hang out at
our shop when it rains). I don't think the error is as great as
this, because I ride the bike to work sometimes on the Freeway, and I
keep up with traffic while the spedo reads 65-70 mph.

**There's plenty of torque for passing if you click down a gear or
two, but the buzzing at high rpms is hard to take: your fingers
practically vibrate right off the grips!
-- I regard this as an overstatement, what can I say? His writing
style sometimes overtakes the point he may be trying to make.

**Hyosung doesn't list trail in the specs, however.
-- Wrong, he never asked for the owners manual, it's in it. Look on
our web site mapsp.com.

**But the SV does give you a smoother motor, better throttle response
and the luxury of fuel injection. Plus, the build quality is
superior.
-- I won't argue with anything but the build quality comment, the
former is subjective opinion. Maybe Aluminum welds looked better to
Gabe, than steel welds, but the quality of the bike in construction,
is on par with Suzuki. Show me where it's not before you make a
statement like that. Remember, "finish quality", is not the same
as "build quality".

**Another consideration could be resale value…
-- Take a look at the NADA book for 2004's SV650. $3575-4700 is
retail. Hmmmm…. A 45%-29% drop. That would make a 2005 GT650S worth
$3024-3904 in 2006. This makes next years Hyosung's very competitive
in the used bike market… I don't think this is a valid issue.

**…and warranty service, a pitfall for new brands.
--Yes, the parts problem is ongoing, and many dealers who have signed
up for these brands are not qualified to work on them, or have the
facilities to do anything but change the oil. Parts aside, I have
witnessed the same problem at many rural Honda dealerships. Is that
an excuse? No, but time and popularity will improve this area.

**The overall build quality is cheaper than what I'm accustomed to…
-- Too broad Gabe. Where? What? Get specific. The only place I
can find fault is the swing arm. It could be built of aluminum, but
the quality of the steel unit is not cheap, just plain old steel.

Okay, that's my critique of the article and I'm sticking to it. The
article was well written and besides these few issues, I enjoyed it.
The people at motorcycle.com are good solid professionals and I would
let them have another bike to test. Thanks Amy for volunteering your
time and your SV. Everyone has an opinion and MO has the bully
pulpit to expound on. The on-line magazine system is a bit dated,
and the forums are a little hard to navigate based on the latest in
forum software, but at less than a buck a month, the price of entry
is worth it.

I urge all you potential US GT riders to get into your local dealers,
view and if your in the market, ride the bikes. Then read the
article. I'm sure you'll have other opinions to add.

Oh yes, I wrote the piece about the dyno in the article, but
motorcycle.com was given a Dynojet to test with, and they thought my
remarks were too controversial, as in somebody might not agree
(Dnojet maybe?). They ended being edited into a softball piece. Oh
well, you can read the real thing on our site under Dyno tech…

Curtis Fisher
MidAmerica PowerSports Plus
mapsp.com
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Craigmri

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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2005, 09:23:34 PM »

Curtis,  I enjoyed your post very much.  I really wanted a new GT650R.  My local dealer finally got a couple so I ran up to check them out.  I found the fit and finish (specifically the paint(Bad orange peel) and the plastic(dimples in the seat cowling)) to be sub-Japanese quality.  The switchgear and windshield seemed "cheezy" to me but then I'll admit thats subjective.  With all that I still wanted one.

First I checked with my insurance company and was shocked to learn the rates were higher for the Hyosung than my then owned 2002 GSXR1000!!!  No I didnt call around other companys but the explaination was due to part prices/availability.  I guess if it got significantly damaged its a strong possibility they would total it.  Speculation on my part here.

Not totally turned off just yet I tried to strike a deal with my dealer.  His price was $6299 firm.....I enjoyed a 30 minute conversation with him explaining that I could buy a new 2005 SV650S for less.  He couldnt help me.  I did find a dealer in GA offering one for $5000 and I was really tempted but I found a 2005 SV650S for $5000 with 185 miles on it and decided to get it instead.  Same insurance company BTW quoted me 1/3 the rate for the SV650S than the Hyosung.

In the end for me it came down to a mulitiude of things:

Fuel Injection.  For me thats a biggie.  I hate carbs for tuning and various failures I've had in the past.

Aluminum frame. Maybe the weight savings isnt  significant but its just cooler.

Resale value.  I dont agree with your arguement since no one pays full MSRP for SV650's  so the depreciation on SV's are actually not bad.  There is a cult following with the SV and the bikes actually resell well.  I suspect I'd have a difficult time reselling a Hyosung in a year from now.  Not a tremendous audience at this point for them.  Perhaps in a couple of years??

Aftermarket.  The SV is a cult bike as I said.  aftermarket stuff galore exsists.

Cooincidently, the GT650R I wanted did in fact sell to a guy in my town.  I stopped him on the road one day and he is very happy with it.  It is a cool looking bike no doubt and someday I may own one.  Time will tell if they're the real deal.

Craig
'05 SV650S
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skadamo

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What other boards are saying about Hyosung.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2005, 02:07:30 AM »

Curtis,

man, where have I been?  i did not see this article until today.  Thats awsome you got mo to come out and test a few bikes.  Your take on the article is very interesting.  I'm glad you stopped by to post.  Welcome to the site!

I agree with your points.  You basically countered most negative points he had.  Do you think he was grasping at straws?  That says a lot about the Hyo.  The VP of National motorsports http://www.national.ca says Hyosung is very open to feed back and turns it around very quickly.  I will be sure he sees this article and ask him to pass the feedback on to Hyosung.

I think Gabe's point about getting the GT's on a race track is a good one.  Sounds like they will hold thier own.  Some advantages of the GT may also surface.  Amy said..."It was balanced, and not top-heavy." I assume she means in comparison to the sv.  could be an advantage on the track.  Along with "held its line well".  

Good point on the resale value.  However, the drop in resale might be a little steeper with the unknown hyosung.  Being the former owner of a Cannondale e440 I know what skeptacism can do to resale value.  Of course, hyosung is no cannondale by any means and a poor comparison in many ways.  But hey, if you aren't selling who cares about resale value?  I've owned my sv since '99.

Craig has a good point about insurance.  I'm sure there are cheaper providers out there.

This article should do a lot to increase the visibility of Hyosung as a brand.  Once the GV650 comes out Hyosung will have a totally unique product which should sell well.  Then if owners are happy with thier experience that will trickle back to GT650 sales.

Have you sold many GT650's?

How has your experience with Hyosung been so far?  I hear they are very secretive and don't share much information about thier goals for the US.  I guess thats kinda off topic, maybe a new post.


later.
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skadamo

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What other boards are saying about Hyosung.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2005, 02:19:39 AM »

here is a link to the article.  gotta subscribe to see most of it.  $12 a year isn't bad...

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/05_Hyosung_GT650_SV650/index.motml
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cdfisher

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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2005, 06:20:15 AM »

Everybody is so ready to knock these bikes I hate to read anything that although true in one sense, may be taken as more of a general statement that paints the entire bike as substandard.  I appreciate both your comments; you both read what I meant.  So far, only one flamer has popped up in MO, but truthfully, I expected more.  The human condition is such that sometimes two people cannot agree on anything the other might be saying.  But hey, life is fun. I can take it.

Craigmri – This thing about insurance is weird. One of my customers was quoted $2K for the R model and $800 for the S.  The cure?  Sold him an S for an R cost and took the plastic off an R, bolted it right to the S and he was happy.  I should mention he was 23 with a good record.  Any full coverage fairing just drives the insurance people nuts with price increases.  It’s a racket, but you have to live with it.  The SV is definitely being priced without plastic, that’s why the price is lower.  

I’m a little skeptical of the $5k deal you found, mostly because you didn’t go through with it and give the dealer the chance to add extra charges.  The rule of thumb in most dealerships is that a deal isn’t real until the money has passed for the product.  Until then, most discounters are holding some hole cards to play at the end.

The truth is that Hyosung dealers make no more off these bikes than any of the big 4.  This is the largest disagreement I had with a response that Gabe had in the forum on MO.  But, I wasn’t going to debate it.  He stated that he thought the price should be lower by $1-1.5K and that then it would really sell.  True, if I could buy a Cadillac for $5k then I’d have four instead of a single Taurus.  

However, between the lines, the assumption is that these bikes are making a huge profit for someone.  That is just not the case.  They are priced relative to: A. The cost of raw materials and labor, B. The cost of getting them into each country, C. The country’s currency and markets.  Who wouldn’t sell a boatload of bikes for $2K if it cost $500 to build each one?  The cost structure that many wish for just doesn’t exist.

I can tell you that the deal you got on the Suzuki was more than likely because the dealer has credits from the factory that are applied to all 2005 models before the 2006’s come out.  That and the dealer could have had it designated as a demo bike, which means they would get another percentage off the cost.  Hyosung and alternative dealers do not have the same programs for making way for the next years models like the majors do.  Great deal though, I would have taken it as well.  I know you’ll be satisfied.

The resale guess was just an attempt to apply some logic to the problem.  I won’t stand behind it except to say, wait and see.  I think you’re right about the SV’s resale price in certain markets, but each market area is different.  The guy who bought the Hyo probably paid full boat for it, and he still got a decent deal if it appealed to him.  As a dealer, I hate to see these bikes discounted a whole lot, since they are already at a decent price point.  It says to me that the dealer has little else to offer and is more concerned with pushing iron than providing good customer service.  Maybe that’s not true for the particular dealer selling at $5K, but he would be an exception.  I really want good dealers to sign up for the brands we sell.

skadamo – Thanks for the vote of confidence.  My experience with Hyosung thus far is zero.  I wish I could talk to someone from the factory.  With KYMCO, we get the straight story, but from Tomberlin-Alphasports there is no news forthcoming.  I only picked up Hyosung because of the bikes and had to buy a bunch of AlphaSports ATv’s to get them.  I have made it a point to stock only factory-backed bikes and although the quality is good, Alphasports are not.  I am more concerned with the parts pipeline and if Hyosung will eventually buy out the current distributor.  In my opinion, both subjects need resolution with speed.

Curtis Fisher
President
MidAmerica PowerSports Plus Inc.
9909 E. Hwy. 40
Independence, MO 64055
Bus:  816.777.1785
Cell: 816.914.8793
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cdfisher

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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2005, 06:23:13 PM »

Interesting what a long term rider is saying about his Hyosung.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Comet650Owners/

Check it out.
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fbruss

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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2005, 04:32:45 AM »

i'm going to ride my comet 250 for a few more years, and by that time i am convinced that the Big HYO will be settled in the US, have a good parts/dealer network, and will be decently established as a brand. i even sold some DuPont stock i had and bought up some Hyosung Motors shares. will probably move up to a GT650 then too.

it's like who ever heard of a SCION automobile until recently? i see lots of them around now. people aren't scared to buy new brands. they just need to know the support for them will be there when they need it
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