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Author Topic: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.  (Read 3986 times)

HYO650-RIDER-ADEL

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Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« on: December 17, 2012, 09:02:04 AM »

Hello All,
First of all since i am new member and new owner of a gorgeous Hyosung. Very excited to find a forum such as this one.

I am a very happy owner of a 2008 GT650R Hyo..well at least til (Sunday morning...) Cause i didn't get my weekend ride in.
5800KM's on the clock (of which i have put 1400). Bike was in excellent condition when i bought it and well looked after.

I first noticed last week my first gear change was a bit 'Clunky' compared to when i first bought it.
I thought maybe the gearbox oil was getting a little low or getting old.
Then on occasion shifting down from 2nd to First felt grindy rather than the nice smooth change it was before.

Neutral finding once stopped at the lights was also a pain sometimes.

Then on Sunday i noticed something else.
Switched the bike off while still in first gear. So went to move it and obviously couldn't (Bike in gear).
Then held down the clutch to just roll it without clicking out of first and the bike would not roll 'easily/freely'.
Not sure if i have ever done this with my new 650Hyo, but i know with any other bike I've ever owned i could do this.

So jumped on and clicked it out to investigate further. Neutral clicked in immediately and rolled fine.
Then clicked into first with Clutch lever out and couldn't move a smidge as expected.
Pulled in the clutch lever and could roll the bike but with great difficulty.. needed to be pushed. Still rolls forward and backward but like a handbrake is on or something.

In my inexperience i thought adding some 10-40w motor oil (Car motor oil) would potentially help the issue. WRONG.
It didn't initially but then thought that with a ride it would resolve. WRONG.
BUT when i stop at the lights and i have the clutch pulled in while in first gear. There is no pulling what so ever and the bike will roll with no problems what so ever. (Free as a bird) While engine is running the bike is back to normal, apart from first gear change a bit more of a clunk.

All i have now is the same issue as before PLUS now my clutch SLIPS at revs over 5000RPM.

I am now a little worried i have both over-filled my OIL SUMP and Used the wrong OIL. (The consequences of which i am not sure of, but if someone knows and would like to break the news to me... then i am ready to take it!)

After some reading it sounded like I have a 'dragging' clutch, i think this might also be confirmed since there was no change by putting the new 10-40w making the clutch super slippery at higher revs but nothing changed from the initial problem.

So my questions are as follows:

Has anyone heard or experienced similar issues before?
Does it sound like dragging clutch?
What are the implications of dragging clutch and riding the bike?
Any thoughts and recommendations are appreciated.

Hopefully talk soon
Manni

« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 09:03:40 AM by HYO650-RIDER-ADEL »
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perjam

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 11:15:31 AM »

Sounds like your clutch cable is to loose, adjust from lever end and only leave 2 to 4mm of play
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perjam

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 11:17:38 AM »

Sorry I meant too tight on the cable
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umop-ǝpisdn

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 12:03:48 PM »

A few thoughts:-

Car oils do not contain the correct friction properties for a wet clutch. You would be best served looking for a 10W40 or some say 10W50 motorbike semi synthetic. Motul is the premium brand, while Castrol make a well regarded one at a lower price.

If your bike is doing either of the following things:

1. Pulling forward when at idle with the clutch pulled fully in.

2. Makes a loud cluncking noise when engaging 1st.

3. Difficult to find neutral.

This means your clutch is 'dragging'. Dragging is a state where the clutch "drive plates" (made from a compsite material that looks like cork) and your "driven plates" (made from steel) remain in contact to some degree. (Best to google a picture of a motorcycle wet clutch to get a better indication of what I am on about).

This is caused by one of three things. Either the clutch cable is poorly adjusted and is too loose. Else the clutch cable may have become stretched. Finally it could in rare circumstances be caused by warping of the/a steel driven plate(s).

OK, so now part two of the saga. The SLIPPING bit.. This is where is starts to get weird..

A slipping clutch is caused by:

1. Poorly adjusted clutch cable, but where usually the cable is too TIGHT! If you read the earlier bit regarding dragging clutch and how it must mean that the cable is too tight, then you're probably thinking I am a bit funny in the head. You may be right.

2. Slipping can also be caused by (a lot of) wear to the "drive plates". Such an amount of wear cannot be caused by a bike with only 6,000kms. No way in hell, even if you ran it on sandpaper instead of oil, it's still not going to be worn drive plates.

3. Stretched clutch springs. I doubt that as well, unless serious heat has been involved.

OK, so:

1. Use proper oil and then adjust your clutch cable.

if that doesn't fix it.

2. Replace your clutch cable and figure out why the bastard wore out so quickly.

if that doesn't fix it, then it might be a warped driven plate that has overheated and somehow managed to buckle, in which case, unless you're comfortable draining the oil from the bike and opening the clutch cover on the side of the engine, seek the services of a motorbike mechanic. If you are handy with tools, it is a surprisingly easy job with only a small number of ways in which you can stuff things up. Do you dare to challenge Murphy? ;)

DBM
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newbymick

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 12:07:20 PM »

Right - her goes

1.  Dump the oil and oil filter (search GT650 section for a how to - there is even a video somewhere).  NEVER use car oil in in a bike (stands back waiting for the fire storm)

2. Install new oil filter and REFIT THE SUMP PLUG - it has been done ;)

3. Refill with 3.5lt's 10w40 oil - search for oil in the GT650 section

4. Here's the clutch bit - At the lever, screw the cable adjuster fully into the post.

5. Right side of bike (oil filter side), just above the the clutch cover, you will find a cable adjuster.  Adjust the clutch cable until you have about 2-3mm movement at the hand lever.  

Come back if you still have a problem.

BTW - 1st gear to neutral - always been sticky on the GT650 - learn to live with it  ;)

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pumbaa

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 12:30:02 PM »

+1 with DBM and Mick....

Shifting from 1st to neutral is definitely a hard deal on a Hyo. Even when the cable is properly adjusted. A technique. Always think ahead. And shift into neutral while the bike is still moving. If you happen to stop for some reason and it won't click into neutral, rock the bike back and forth. That usually helps. Even my 250 had issues shifting. Its just a quirk with Hyo transmissions.
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HYO650-RIDER-ADEL

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 12:40:23 PM »

Thanks Guys.
Looks like I have my hands full for now.
I'll dump the oil and play with the cable adjustments then see how things go.
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umop-ǝpisdn

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 10:58:23 PM »

Shifting from 1st to neutral is definitely a hard deal on a Hyo. Even when the cable is properly adjusted. A technique.


Not in my case.

I went for a replacement clutch though...

I'm pretty sure I jumped the gun when I went down this path, but I went straight for the EBC kevlar race clutch from whygostock and have never looked back!

Some issues fitting it's but only because I put the drive plates in, in the wrong order.

It's a costly little bugger, but it does solve the dragging issue!

http://www.whygostock.com/hyosung-ebc-race-clutch-kit/

In so far as improvements to my bike, this one thing, along with the R/R upgrade, has made my bike a lot more 'ride and relax'. I don't need a special technique to find neutral, nor do I need to plan my stops ahead of time. I just select neutral when I need it and stop when it suits me to do so. ;)

Recommended.

DBM
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HyoFuelNazi

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 02:01:02 PM »

Car oil and wet clutches give exactly the symptoms you have described.

If it hasn't been in too long you could pull out the clutch plates and wash them in petrol or solvent then try some proper moto oil.

Though I am not generally a fan of synthetic oils this may be a case to use some for your next change. They do clean the engine out and after putting in car oil ..... this is what you need.

Never use other than a JASC MA2? spec. oil  ( motorcycles with wet clutch specific. )
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HYO650-RIDER-ADEL

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Re: Clutch Problem?? Bike won't roll with Clutch pulled in.
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 01:04:58 AM »

######UPDATE######

Hey all. Firstly thanks to everyone for their responses.

Changed Oil Filter and New (correct) Oil installed.
Original problem solved.
Bike now rolls effortlessly if not running and in first gear with clutch pulled in.
Neutral finding at lights once stopped is perfect and back to normal.
First gear clunk is almost non-existent.

BUT!!!!

NO clutch is slipping at high revs.
Which i think can be two potential issues.

1. Residual Synthetic oil still on clutch plates.

2. With 20minutes of riding while synthetic oil was in there and clutch slipping has damaged/worn the clutch down so it now slips regardless. (Although i was careful)


My question:
If there is residual synthetic oil will is go away eventually on its own or will they need cleaning?
I read someone saying that they needed to be cleaned in Petrol. Is this the case?
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