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Author Topic: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.  (Read 1212 times)

maciopa

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GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« on: September 05, 2014, 07:33:39 AM »

Hey there,

My GT650 EFI (2012+) Delphi ECU, misfires while cold, both in the exhaust and into the cylinder. Ignition is electronical here so.... where is the problem?
My local Hyo Dealer is learning how to service that bike - they were originally Yamaha dealer and an official service whorkshop but they lost the concesion when Yamaha in EU demanded that all dealers have to have at least 2 storey buildings. Nevertheless - they claim that "missfires happens" in V2 engines. Is that so? 
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Hylife

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 12:26:42 PM »

Quote
My GT650 EFI (2012+) Delphi ECU, misfires while cold,
Fuel mixture problems can be cause by blockages or erratic sensors or ECU issues.
Buy a can of electrical contact cleaner-lubricant from you local electronics hobby shop (don't use WD spray) and spray all your connections one by one including (after disconnecting battery) the ECU socket and pins connectors (remove carefully).

Quote
they claim that "missfires happens" in V2 engines. Is that so?

Nope. Sounds like they don't know their stuff.

My bike only stuttered when I had bad fuel or the wrong fuel (needs 87PON/91RON) or altitude issues on the piglet.
Premium fuel always makes my bikes run lean, hot, noisy (exhaust note) and causes decelleration backfiring. Unfortunately, outback Oz only carries Premium (95 & 98) that has not been doctored with anti-sniffing additives to stop the indigenous folk from huffing the fuel. The standard 91 is adulterated crap called 'low aromatic Opal' and it plays havoc with small cc engine injectors and pumps.
I regularly chuck in a squirt of fuel treatment carby-injector cleaner into every 4th or 5th (approx) tankfull and now have tens of thousands of uneventful km on my machines.
I do however start my engines before I fit my helmet and gloves and safety glasses and do that last minute check of zips and pockets etc and turn on the bluetooth etc. This gives them a minute or 2 to warm up a fraction. Starting and immediately riding results in stuttering because the sensors have not stabilised their outputs to the ECU.

If you talk to riders of other brand modern EFI bikes that utilise lots of sensors they all have this problem. Even cars don't like cold start thrashing. There are of course many immature EFI bikes that only employ a very rudimentary EFI/ECU system, and whilst simplicity may seem attractive at first, most of these engines generate stuff all power for their size, drink fuel like it is a cheap resource and rely on massive cubes for what little torque they offer.
Compare the near 80HP from our 650 to the often less HP from many American Iron style designs that may be twice or three times the cc.
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maciopa

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 05:27:02 PM »

So in short words - the worse fuel the better? I have filled it up with Shell V-Power Racing 99+ and previously it had BP 98 Ultimate... Could it be the reason? One cannot buy a gasoline with RON lower than 95 here in Poland, our "Super" is 98, and Premium is 98+ .

I will buy that contact cleaner/lubricant and try to spray all those connectors I can find (my LCD displays that FI error while engine is not running - but ONCE it did not pop up! until I moved a side stand into horizontal position - my side-stand's switch is working properly - shutting off the engine if coupled with a gear).

I do the same - first start my engine (which runs at very low rpm and shuts down after 6 sec, after that, after second start - it runs constantly - note - it won't shut down if I squeeze a throttle just by an inch at least once ), then I fit my helmet/gloves, zip all zippers etc and usually the temp meter shows 2 dashes when I actually drive out of my parking place.

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Hylife

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2014, 02:00:02 PM »

Quote
So in short words - the worse fuel the better?

Actually, higher octane fuel is neither worse nor better than lower octane fuel.

Octane is simple a measure of resistance to detonation.
There is no additional energy in higher or lower octane fuel.
Higher octane fuel without adding additional oxygen is simply a method of retarding the timing.
If you add additional oxygen to the fuel:air mix you can obtain a more explosive detonation, ie, turbo, hypercharger etc.
The lower the octane the more "volitile" the fuel is at a given compression.

Very high compression engines can squeeze the air intake into a more compressed space resulting in the equivilent of adding more air, so in those engines using higher octane fuel results in more power from the detonation.

The ECU is tuned for 91RON so use the lowest octane you can buy if 91 is not available.
As our 650 engines would be classified as getting close to high compression, if the ECU were tuned for 95 or 98 that would result in more power , but it isn't, so that means you are wasting money and fuel and probably carboning up the top end of your engine.

Using 95 & 98 will result in carbon being deposited on the valves, cylinder head, piston crown and spark plug and unburnt fuel exiting in the exhaust gases and the EGO sensor will detect this and lean out your fuel buy shortening the injector opening times. This will result in lumpy power and an engine that runs hot.
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Kaomech

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 01:48:20 AM »

I had a similar issue with a 88 cbr250r
soon as we emptied the tank put 91 octane in she fired over and hasn't given an ounce of trouble since...

I've always found my ninja was temperamental on anything above 95 ...
Good to know nothings changed with the efi addition ...
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maciopa

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 10:17:01 PM »

Hey guys, thank you for your replies.

The problem is that it is impossible to buy a gasoline with the RON lower than 95 here in Poland, as it is non-existent (besides all new cars have to be fueled with a gasoline with the RON no lower than 95...)
What is more - every and each fuel contains some additional components (aye, they add also some bio components to that also, up to some %, but I do not read all those information they glue to pumps nowadays).
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Hylife

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 04:07:44 AM »

Quote
they add also some bio components to that

Precisely. Normal fuel made from petroleum oil is 87MON/PON or 91RON. To get a higher octane they add ethanol usually derived from vegetable/plant decomposition in a factory not unlike making vodka.

Many countries add ethanol because it is cheaper to produce than petroleum oil.
This is the great consumer rip-off of the 21st century, higher octane fuel is cheaper to make than lower octane fuel.
This is why the fuel refiners constantly run adverts on TV extolling the supposed non-existant virtues of using their premium products because amazingly they get to sell a cheaper product to dumb consumers for a higher price!

Just like when you make changes to the air intake or exhaust on a carby engine, you are then forced to re-tune the fuel mix by way of different needles (jets) in your carby or your engine runs worse.
Same for EFI. If you change the fuel you need to re-program the ECU that was pre-programmed for 91RON. If you can't do that then the engine will run worse and you will be wasting your money on premium fuel.

As Poland only has EuroSuper 95 and SuperPlus 98, you need to ask your Hyosung dealer to obtain an ECU flash for 95 RON fuel. Hyo does have these different ECU maps as Poland is not unique in using non-standard fuels.
Any EFI vehicle must be using the correct ECU map for the fuel on sale.
If you get the correct map for your Hyo you will like the extra power of 95RON.

If you don't get any help from your Hyo dealer in Poland there is a very good Hyo following in Hungary.
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maciopa

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 07:41:00 AM »

Hey,

I just spoke to the Polish Central Dealer and they were "surprised" that there is a new map for the Delphi ECU.

Edit: I did call Hungarian Dealer - they have redirected me to ... the Polish Dealer (Romet, Dębica), as they say that it is the most experienced and knowledgeable Dealer in EU if it comes to EFi engines. Guys from Hungary claim they could help me if my Hyo would have carburetors. 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 09:09:35 AM by maciopa »
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Hylife

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 10:09:10 AM »

If you get no joy from your dealer/importer/distributer, send off an email to KR Motors for some assistance.
mailto:justinlee@KRmotors.com
mailto:victoria@KRmotors.com

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maciopa

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Re: GT650 Efi (2012+) misfires when cold.
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 05:36:57 PM »

Hey there,

thank you for that hint/tip. I have mailed them. Wonder if I got any reply.
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